P… What Becomes a Legend Most

(Above photos provided by Tom Dyer)

EDITOR’S NOTE: Central Florida drag and acting legend Paul Wegman, known in Orlando’s LGBTQ community simply as P, passed away on Aug. 24, 2004 due to complications from AIDS. He was 60 years old. In honor of the legendary P, who left us far too soon 14 years ago today, we are republishing an interview (which can be read below) he did with Watermark founder Tom Dyer which ran in the ninth issue of Watermark on Dec. 21, 1994. On the 10-year mark of Wegman’s passing, Watermark dedicated an in-depth cover feature — written by Scottie Campbell — to him which you can read here.

For almost 20 years, gay men and lesbians (and often their straight family and friends) have ventured to the Parliament House to see P. She is Orlando’s uncontested gay icon. In fact, to experience P for the first time is to complete a rite of passage; to be initiated into the bawdy humor and high camp that are so much a part of our culture. Nobody does it better than P.

P is such a powerful presence that it may be difficult to conjure the actor who creates her. Indeed, it may sometimes be difficult for that actor, the delightfully talented Paul Wegman, to emerge from P’s shadow.

But Wegman’s acting credentials are impressive. He just completed his third turn as Scrooge, this time at the Civic Theatre of Central Florida. Also at the Civic, he has played Lady Braknell in “The Importance of Being Earnest,” and C.S. Lewis in the Second Stage production of “Shadowlands,” for which he earned Best Actor accolades.

Among his other credits: the title role in Seminole Community College’s “The Elephant Man”; Horst in Martin Sherman’s “Bent,” a play about homosexual persecution in Nazi Germany; and three appearances in The Orlando Shakespeare Festival, including Prospero in “The Tempest.” The versatile Wegman has also been featured on “Divorce Court,” “twice — once in drag and once out.”

Wegman graduated Magna Cum Laude from the University of Central Florida in 1991 with a Bachelor of Arts in Theater. And he shared a Spectrum Award last year with the Orlando Gay Chorus as “Entertainer of the Year.” Right now, he’s directing “Little Shop of Horrors” at Valencia Community College, and is considering taking on Sister Mary Ignacious.

Given Wegman’s busy schedule, it’s no wonder that it took several calls to arrange an interview and photo session. He was reticent at first. “Who do you want to talk to… me or P? We met at the Parliament House, on the stage he has commanded for almost two decades.

P was initially reluctant to use a full-length fur as a prop (“I’m very anti the killing of animals”), but the dramatic possibilities were too tempting. She was soon on the floor, posing like a temptress in front of a roaring fire. As she said, “This is my Vargas moment, and I’m taking it.” P was as hilarious as her clothes flew about the stage. Photographer Jill Porter was ecstatic. “That’s perfect P… you look gorgeous… except we need to hide the duct tape.”

Afterwards, we sat alone on the darkened stage, with the muted sounds of the piano bar as background. I wasn’t sure exactly who I would be talking with. In telephone conversations Wegman had referred to P in the third person: “I’m not sure what she’ll say. She’s never really been interviewed.”

Our conversation lasted for almost three hours, and what emerged was a character who was clearly P and clearly Wegman; as though the interview process was forcing a reconciliation. Wegman was recently arrested for DUI, and not surprisingly, it has made him reflective.

I was surprised when Wegman shared that he does not feel a particularly close bond with Orlando’s gay community. I was not surprised, however, at the complex and often contradictory character I encountered: intelligent but apolitical; strong, yet extremely vulnerable; a master of illusion, yet disarmingly honest; surrounded by people, yet often lonely. More than anything, Wegman and his P were warm, generous, and enormously likeable.

As I left the Parliament House after the interview, a curious employee inquired about the interview and then offered, “Nobody really knows her, y’know.” I know P a little now. I think she wants all of us to know her.

I wanted to start by asking you about your name. Most female impersonators use elaborate show names, but yours is very simple… “P.”

Well, it hasn’t been all that simple. Like so many things, it’s been an evolutionary process. When I first started doing drag back in Tampa I was “The Lady Pauline, The Girl With The Million Dollar Legs.” Pauline was an extension of Paul. Then when I moved to Orlando, I was still Pauline, and I think I still had million dollar legs, I’m not sure. But I was doing a great deal of Bette Midler because she was starting to hit her peak in New York. I really connected with her and her music, and I’d just been asked to begin emceeing the show here at the Parliament House, so I called myself “The Divine Miss P.” Some time after that I decided to go ahead and drop all that divine business because I’m really not all that divine (laughs), and so it became just “Miss P.” And then for a while I wouldn’t even let them use the “Miss” … I just said “P.”

Very simple… like you?

(Laughs) I guess because (pause) there was a time in the early ’70s, when I first moved over here to Orlando, when I started to lose my masculinity. I had silicone injections, and a friend of mine talked me into taking hormones. My breasts started developing and I had all this fabulous skin and long red hair of my own. I used to ride around town on a bicycle in little cut off shorts and men would mistake me for a woman. It was very fun, you know. It was the whole thing.

But then all of a sudden something — (laughs) could it have been common sense and intelligence? — took over and said to me (in deep guttural voice), “Heyya. Where you goin’ with all this, now.” And at that time I also started doing some straight theater. So I decided that adventure was over … it was fun … it was a cute little trip … but that’ll be just about the end of it.

So when I started re-evolving back into being both a male and a female, as opposed to only a blend of both, I said let’s get rid of all this Pauline stuff and just be “P.”

It seems to me that many female impersonators are really going for the illusion of actually being female, whereas P is more of a character. Is that correct?

Yes, and I think it goes with the person that I am when I’m in drag. But I beg to differ with you when you say they’re going for the illusion of being a female. I think I’m going for the illusion of being a female and they’re going more for being a female.

I think when you start changing your body to the extent that Stephanie has changed hers, the illusion is disappearing. Where is the illusion? She is fast becoming a woman. I don’t know where she could go during the day and people would think she was a man, not with those breasts. Those of us who aren’t doing that are really the keepers of the illusion.

How has your look changed? How does P look different today than she did 20 years ago?

Not a great deal … and a great deal. Stephanie Shippae, for example, looks much the same as the first time I ever saw her, and I think I do too … on some nights. But on other nights I may look completely different. I don’t stick to one look, one hair color, one makeup style.

While we’re talking makeup… In becoming a female, what is your biggest makeup challenge?

(Laughs loudly) Anymore it’s hiding the wrinkles and the lines. The eyes to me are always the most important thing in the transformation and they’re getting harder and harder to do, because of gravity, age.

What do you think is your best feature?

My eyes.

I do too. There’s a depth of character… a wisdom.

Oh, what a nice thing to say. I wonder if other people connect with that. You know, the character has been around for sooo long. July of next year will be 20 years at the Parliament House. Fourth of July weekend of 1995 will be 20 years. True, I’ve taken a couple of sabbaticals, but that character has been here for 20 years! I stop sometimes to think back and I realize that I’m saying some of the same things and doing some of the same things as 20 years ago, and people still connect. I wonder if the eyes are part of that. I don’t know. It’s a mystery.

Were you an actor in legitimate theater when you started doing female impersonation?

When I was 18 years old I decided I wanted to be an actor. I was also 275 pounds of person…

You’re joking.

I’m not. And my mother and father looked at me and said, “They’re just isn’t much hope of you becoming an actor. You’d better start thinking about getting a job and getting a regular life.” So when I graduated from school I got a regular job and a regular life. And then I ran away from home when I was 19, and I joined a carnival in Dunkirk, New York.

A friend of mine talked me into it. He had a job at the carnival doing a black light dance with a hand costume, it was very good, and I had no job. The minute we arrived on the carnival lot he deserted me, and there I was just walking around. Mind you, I had been raised in this very close-knit family. I slept for a week under the wagons hiding out, scared out of my wits, seeing my friend only every once in a while. Finally this lady who ran the carnival cafeteria asked me to come work for her. So I moved from under the wagon up into the wagon (laughs).

And its been uphill ever since.

Ever since. So I worked in the carnival cafeteria and had a great time. I met a man at the carnival, formed a relationship with him…

Did you know you were gay when you ran away?

Oh yes, yes. I knew I was different at 12, and knew I was gay at 18, when I found out that there were other people like me and gay bars to go to find them.

So I formed a relationship with this man, We got to Tampa, and he ditched me for someone else, left me standing on the Kennedy Boulevard bridge with a nickel in my pocket. He said I should call my mother, and I was not about to call my mother, so things went on from there.

I made friends in Tampa with a man named Whit Gibson, who brought me to Orlando one night when the Palace Club was still on Edgewater Drive, little teeny place…

It’s Faces now.

Yes. Walked into the place and Miss Honey was on stage doing “Spanish Rose” from Bye Bye Birdie… Chita Rivera. Well, as a child I knew all of those Broadway shows. I was one of those Broadway cast album faggots. Had ‘em all. Knew ‘em all.

So there we were at the Palace Club and I was mouthing all the words with Miss Honey and my friend Whit said to me, “You’d like to be doing that wouldn’t you?” and I said, “I sure would,” and a month later I was on the stage.

So the drag came from an intense desire to be onstage, to be a performer. It wasn’t the desire to wear women’s clothes or to be mistaken for a woman. It was the desire to be on stage and to perform, and this presented itself as the right opportunity.

Were you a natural? You’re so charismatic and so funny. Did that evolve, or was that present right from the start?

It was there from the beginning. I did some strange things at the beginning, but people really responded. They always had a hint of comedy about them, and a hint of camp. Definitely different.

A big part of your show is the repartee with the audience. Did you do that right from the start?

No. I started just like everybody else, doing my little lip-synch number. Some of them were a little off, and sometimes I wouldn’t lip-synch at all, I would just go out and dance. I remember painting myself with ultraviolet paint and putting a black light on the stage…

It was the ’70s…

Yes, it was. And I would do some number by the Rotary Connection and people thought it was good.

When did your dialogue with the audience begin?

At the Palace Club out on Humphries. There were two emcees, both male, and one night both couldn’t make it and they asked me if I could do it. I freaked out and said, “Oh my God… no. I just lip-synch.” But they convinced me that all I had to do was introduce people so I went out there. I have not the faintest recollection of what I said that night that made some people laugh, but that’s all it took.

It’s a great feeling.

Love to hear people laugh. Love to hear people laugh. So pretty soon it became, “What can I do to make these people laugh?” And then all of a sudden it wasn’t a matter of thinking what I could do — this is where you’ll look at me with crossed eyes — but this is where God stepped in and said, “This is what you were meant to do. This is where you belong. You need to make people laugh and I’ll help you. I’ll give you the things to say.” And until the day I die I will believe that.

I’ve seen you perform at least 50 times, and I’ve never seen you have an off night. Where you seemed like you didn’t want to be there.

Well, this past weekend I had an off night because of my DUI. I was truly scared, because when the court told me what I was facing for the next year I all of a sudden realized I was going to have to make some dramatic changes in my life.

I sat down and looked at what my life had been, especially since my lover and I broke up a year ago, and I realized that I really looked forward to Friday and Saturday nights. I would get here and I would have those two drinks and halfway through the first show I would be sloshed. Halfway through the second show I would stop remembering things. It just erased two days from the week that I no longer had to deal with. All of a sudden, I wasn’t going to be able to do that anymore.

So last Friday night, when I walked out on stage it was really scary… really scary… because I felt like I had started depending on the liquor to give me that lift over the hill … to leaving Paul behind and becoming P. But again, it was God and the universe slapping me in the face with a DUI and then turning around and letting me know that it hadn’t been taken away from me … I just had to do it a little more naturally. And she was there. P was there. I knew just what to do.

I remember watching you, people used to send you these drinks that you would slam on the stage…

Oh, the Puffs. Yes, I remember.

… and they would come one after another after another, and I always wondered how you could handle all those drinks. Did you ever say enough?

I don’t think so (laughs). If I did, I don’t remember that night.

How do you decide who to go after in the audience?

I don’t know… I really don’t.

I figure if they’re sitting in the front they ought to expect it.

If they’re sitting in the front they ought to expect it.

Which is why I always sit in the back.

But I don’t pick on ordinary people, because there’s nothing to pick on. And that’s why I always look for the straight people first… because they have no real business here. They’re sight-seers. But I don’t mean that in a nasty way. And again, I think — I hate to keep saying it — but God and the universe look over my shoulder, telling me who to use. The Good Lord points me toward someone and says, “That woman over there… she can take it and she’ll have fun with it.”

It seems like, next to straight people, you’re second favorite category to pick on is lesbians.

(Hesitates than laughs) God knows I love ‘em, I really do. I don’t know why. No, maybe I do know why. When you look at relationships in our world, it seems as though lesbian relationships are always the hardest and the strongest and the longest. Perhaps that says something to P, to me, about them being a little more able to take things, to absorb things, and to bounce them back at you. And it’s always been true.

Have you ever gone too far? Have you ever said to yourself, “Oh no, I’ve really hurt this person?”

Oh yea, and immediately stopped and continued with the show, and then tried to get back out to talk with that person and make up for it and say I’m sorry.

Do you remember any instances or things you said that pushed the wrong buttons?

I remember an instance where a woman tried to have me arrested. She just wasn’t impressed with me at all.

What would be the charges?

Abuse. Mental and physical abuse. She wouldn’t stand up for me, so I had pulled her chair away to make her stand up, and then I don’t remember what I said, but she thought that my whole routine was “anti-feminist.” When she said that to the police, I just looked at the officer and said, “Well… I guess it is.”

What about the Spectrum Awards last year, Fran Pignone?

(Cringes) Oh, why did you have to bring that up?

In retrospect, did you feel like that was too far?

Yes. Yes. In retrospect, I wish that I had never, never done that.

In talking with people afterward, there were two distinct opinions. One group thought that your act is well known and funny and that maybe we overprotect our public figures. Others thought you’d gone too far, and that you’d been disrespectful.

And I’d have to agree with both. I think that Miss P should have had a little more control over herself, and probably could have made more points for herself had she handled the situation a little differently, with a little more dignity. P should have met Ms. Pignone on a more even level. I believe in my heart that Miss P is able to do that. I think that Miss P could have looked at Fran and commented about politics or talked with her in some way or another in such a way that not only Fran would have looked good but Miss P would have looked good and the whole situation could have been a lot better. I don’t know why she went for the physical schtick, other than the fact that Fran wore that dress there that night and was showing her bosom off … which made Miss P jealous (laughs).

Are you a political person?

No. No. I wish I was. I wish I had time. I wish I had time to understand more and to be more involved. But right at the moment, I don’t have time.

A lot of people can relate to that sentiment.

I wish that I could commit to one part of my life. I wish I could commit to being an actor. I wish I could commit to being a front desk clerk. But Paul can’t be happy with involvement in all three at all times. With age and everything, it’s getting harder and harder.

I’ve kind of got this five-year-plan where I have to be out of drag by the time I’m 55, and hopefully auditioning in regional theaters and being an actor. I’ve made some commitments to myself, which is something I’ve never done before in my life. It’s kind of scary.

Not a good thing to admit, but I’ve never had long-term goals… five, 10, 15 years. I’ve had short-term goals, like playing Scrooge in” A Christmas Carol,” but never long-term goals.

It’s hard for you to say “No” isn’t it? I know you’re directing “Little Shop of Horrors” at Valencia, but for a while you didn’t know how you could possibly fit it in.

I was scared. It’s my first musical. I’ve never directed a musical. But now I’m excited about it. It’s going to be phenomenal. I’ve cast a woman as the plant. I think it’s the first time a woman’s ever played the plant, which will put a whole new connotation on the scene where the plant eats Audrey. It’s going to be the deal. It opens Valentine’s weekend.

In what ways is Orlando limiting for you?

Well, there’s no professional theater here, except for Mark Two and to an extent the Civic Theater. I have no complaint because I have so much else going on with my life, but if I had to make my living solely as an actor in this town, I’d be scared stiff.

What do you think of the gay community in Orlando?

(Pause). That’s a tough question for me, Tom. I love them for their support. (Long pause). I wish I was gayer. I am a homosexual, but I don’t think of myself as being gay in the sense that I’m not politically motivated and I’m not community motivated. In a sense I’m very community motivated. But I don’t come to this place (the Parliament House). I don’t go to the other bars. You can count the number of times I’ve been in Southern Nights or the Cactus Club on one hand. I don’t go to the gay church. I’m not involved in gay activities. I don’t have time.

Again, it’s all those other people that I am that get in the way. If I was just Miss P, I would probably be everywhere doing everything. But I can’t go out and then go do Scrooge the next morning.

How about when you look out at the audience you’ve been performing in front of for 20 years, has it changed? Does it look different?

No. No, I don’t think so. Take this room, for instance, which is in three tiers. The audience is pretty much the same, it just moves back. People who are just discovering me and the whole gay world generally sit down front, and then after a while they’re a little less fascinated, a little less enamored, so they move back, eventually to the back and then out the door to another life. But from my perspective, it all looks pretty much the same.

And what about AIDS? For so many it’s a demarcation point. I guess unfortunately, for many, it isn’t.

I hear these horror stories about how things are going free and crazy in some places. I walk out of here so many nights and I look up in horror that people are still doing what they did 10 and 20 years ago. They should not be.

How does being P affect your ability to form serious relationships?

You know, Miss P looks at men on an hourly basis. But Paul has met a lot of men he would like to get to know better, but Paul is so very insecure because of me, because of Miss P, that he sort of stops it right away.

Because…

“No fats, no fems.” (Laughs).

Don’t you find that…

…One of the most offensive things in the world.

And also a cruel irony, that so many gay men are looking for an ideal that is closely associated with heterosexuality.

An ideal, instead of a reality. And its doubly offensive when you come face-to-face with the nelly queen that requested no fems. (Laughs).

Are you suggesting that you’ve dabbled in personals?

(Laughs). Yes. And you can get into all that stuff on CompuWho.

Oh? Care to share your handle?

Tequila.

Can you think of anyone in our culture now — this keeps me up at night –that matches the grace of stars like Grace Kelly and Audrey Hepburn?

Oh, no. We don’t want that anymore. We want Madonnas. We want people to be tacky and nasty. We find nothing to admire in Grace Kellys and Audrey Hepburns anymore. Look at talk shows. We want grime.

Why do you think that is?

Because it takes too much time. It takes too much intelligence. There are few renaissance men anymore, a person who is intelligent and interested in everything. Shaquille O’Neill is culture now in Orlando. He’s the renaissance man: movies, video, rap songs.

Let’s go back to Madonna.

She just wants to make a spectacle of herself. She wasn’t satisfied with Andy Warhol’s 15 minutes. She wants hours, days, years! And she’ll do anything to get them. Where are her principles? What does she stand for? What is she? Does anyone have any idea of what she is or who she is? Does she?

I think she might say that she stands for … throwing off inhibition.

(Looks incredulous) Well in that case, she done good.

What about the female impersonation community? Is it a sisterhood? Is it close? Is it bitchy? Is it gossipy? Is it competitive?

It’s all of those things, particularly from an outsider looking in. And I wish I was a part of it, but I’m not. I’m too unique. I’m too different. I can only give it so much time. I come in and I join the sisterhood on Friday and Saturday night, and then I’m gone. I see it all happen in the dressing room. There are fabulous, tight connections, and I wish I could be more a part of it.

Our conversation has been different than I expected. Is this a reflective time in your life?

Yes, it really is. I guess Scrooge has a lot to do with it. I do that show two times a day. I would love to do that character every year if I could, just because I love that journey that he takes, and the redemption that he experiences finding what is simple and beautiful about Christmas.

I’ve been thinking about our interview for the last few days, and how (laughs) I fully intended to try to be more Miss P in the interview, and say things like, “Well, Paul won’t let me do this,” or “Paul won’t let me do that.” But this is me.